Comments on: Church Hierarchy Nonsense http://www.mikepottersblog.com/2009/06/church-hierarchy-nonsense/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=church-hierarchy-nonsense On life, learning, love, and laughter. Sat, 14 Jan 2012 01:09:59 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Chad http://www.mikepottersblog.com/2009/06/church-hierarchy-nonsense/comment-page-1/#comment-222 Chad Wed, 10 Jun 2009 21:31:16 +0000 http://www.mikepottersblog.com/?p=389#comment-222 I agree with this to a point. There were elders appointed in every city but at the top you still have Paul and not a delegation. I am in no way opposed to the abundance of counsel and believe the more the marrier but am convinced that there are apostilic leaders today who should be at the top. The greatest problem with the church is democracy. Everyone feels that they should have a say even when it comes to scripture and that simply is not the way of scripture. It would be like having 5 presidents running our country. Impossible. Obama has advisers and confidants but ultimately it comes down on him just like if all hell breaks lose at your church it will come down on you as their leader. If it were not the Lords heart to have one at the top He would have never started with one but a delegation. This is why the 5 fold government of Ephesians 4:11 should still be in place in every church. Democracy is not a biblical government as many Christian believe it is. Look at every great church in the world and you will see one at the top ranks instead of a panel. I agree with this to a point. There were elders appointed in every city but at the top you still have Paul and not a delegation. I am in no way opposed to the abundance of counsel and believe the more the marrier but am convinced that there are apostilic leaders today who should be at the top. The greatest problem with the church is democracy. Everyone feels that they should have a say even when it comes to scripture and that simply is not the way of scripture. It would be like having 5 presidents running our country. Impossible. Obama has advisers and confidants but ultimately it comes down on him just like if all hell breaks lose at your church it will come down on you as their leader. If it were not the Lords heart to have one at the top He would have never started with one but a delegation. This is why the 5 fold government of Ephesians 4:11 should still be in place in every church. Democracy is not a biblical government as many Christian believe it is. Look at every great church in the world and you will see one at the top ranks instead of a panel.

]]> By: Mike Potter http://www.mikepottersblog.com/2009/06/church-hierarchy-nonsense/comment-page-1/#comment-220 Mike Potter Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:30:07 +0000 http://www.mikepottersblog.com/?p=389#comment-220 Hi Chad: I mentioned in my earlier response to you that I sometimes blog (with some humor thrown in) in order to identify some of the damaging and/or ignorant actions taken by my brothers and sisters in Christ. This does not mean that I do not love them, but I am very hesitant to sit back and be identified with everything a brother or sister does, allows, or declares in the name of Christ. Regarding your comments about one leader, I'm not so sure that you're right about that. You're referring only to OT leaders...men who were called by God to lead His nation. There IS a difference in the way in which the Lord orders the church spelled out in the NT. Nowhere in the NT is the position of senior pastor (one main leader) identified. Paul was an apostolic leader (and church planter) who told Timothy and Titus (his apostolic understudies) to appoint elders in every city (contextually, this would be every church today). For instance, at the NT church in Ephesus, the leaders of this church were elders (Acts 20). I don't see a biblical problem with one of the elders serving in the role of "first among equals" (pastor), but the problem comes in when he assumes full decision-making responsibility and authority. There is no biblical precedent for this in the NT. Hi Chad:

I mentioned in my earlier response to you that I sometimes blog (with some humor thrown in) in order to identify some of the damaging and/or ignorant actions taken by my brothers and sisters in Christ. This does not mean that I do not love them, but I am very hesitant to sit back and be identified with everything a brother or sister does, allows, or declares in the name of Christ.

Regarding your comments about one leader, I’m not so sure that you’re right about that. You’re referring only to OT leaders…men who were called by God to lead His nation. There IS a difference in the way in which the Lord orders the church spelled out in the NT. Nowhere in the NT is the position of senior pastor (one main leader) identified. Paul was an apostolic leader (and church planter) who told Timothy and Titus (his apostolic understudies) to appoint elders in every city (contextually, this would be every church today). For instance, at the NT church in Ephesus, the leaders of this church were elders (Acts 20). I don’t see a biblical problem with one of the elders serving in the role of “first among equals” (pastor), but the problem comes in when he assumes full decision-making responsibility and authority. There is no biblical precedent for this in the NT.

]]> By: Chad http://www.mikepottersblog.com/2009/06/church-hierarchy-nonsense/comment-page-1/#comment-218 Chad Wed, 10 Jun 2009 15:19:10 +0000 http://www.mikepottersblog.com/?p=389#comment-218 Mike why do you feel the bent or need to point out the faults of your brothers? There is something terribly wrong in your spirit to see this as somehow amusing. Do I agree with coveted parking spaces? Probably not but how do you know that these pastors did this? How do you know that their congregation were not simply trying to respect and honor the position as shepherd? I believe this is noble of the congregation and while I would be a bit uncomfortable with it I certainly would not see it as an offense. And as noble as this blog attempts to be by diminishing your role as senior pastor, the truth is that the government God establishes always has one at the top. Look at Moses, he did not have a delegation or committee but spoke face to face with God as the Lord directed him to do. Then Joshua, David, Solomon, .... the fact is that there must be one leader! And although that leader may have many counselors he alone is at the top of the order in responsibility before the Lord. Mike why do you feel the bent or need to point out the faults of your brothers? There is something terribly wrong in your spirit to see this as somehow amusing. Do I agree with coveted parking spaces? Probably not but how do you know that these pastors did this? How do you know that their congregation were not simply trying to respect and honor the position as shepherd? I believe this is noble of the congregation and while I would be a bit uncomfortable with it I certainly would not see it as an offense.
And as noble as this blog attempts to be by diminishing your role as senior pastor, the truth is that the government God establishes always has one at the top. Look at Moses, he did not have a delegation or committee but spoke face to face with God as the Lord directed him to do. Then Joshua, David, Solomon, …. the fact is that there must be one leader! And although that leader may have many counselors he alone is at the top of the order in responsibility before the Lord.

]]> By: Leon http://www.mikepottersblog.com/2009/06/church-hierarchy-nonsense/comment-page-1/#comment-206 Leon Thu, 04 Jun 2009 22:12:52 +0000 http://www.mikepottersblog.com/?p=389#comment-206 The spots reserved for the pastor and his 1st lady may be meant to honor them... but my question is, where do they park? Do they set the example and take up their cross and follow Jesus through the storm... from the far reaches of society's parking lot? Designated parking lots and titles will fade away if we walk the walk. Soon we will be known by our love and sacrifice for one another. The spots reserved for the pastor and his 1st lady may be meant to honor them… but my question is, where do they park? Do they set the example and take up their cross and follow Jesus through the storm… from the far reaches of society’s parking lot? Designated parking lots and titles will fade away if we walk the walk. Soon we will be known by our love and sacrifice for one another.

]]> By: Darcy http://www.mikepottersblog.com/2009/06/church-hierarchy-nonsense/comment-page-1/#comment-204 Darcy Thu, 04 Jun 2009 17:04:41 +0000 http://www.mikepottersblog.com/?p=389#comment-204 Wow...those folks sound like egomaniacs. Wow…those folks sound like egomaniacs.

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