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	<title>Comments on: Ted Haggard is Back</title>
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	<link>http://www.mikepottersblog.com/2009/11/ted-haggard-is-back/?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=ted-haggard-is-back</link>
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		<title>By: Tom B.</title>
		<link>http://www.mikepottersblog.com/2009/11/ted-haggard-is-back/comment-page-1/#comment-855</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 07:22:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikepottersblog.com/?p=1287#comment-855</guid>
		<description>A pastor who fell from grace only 3 years ago is back. --Troubling. Loneliness is a dangerous reason to start a ministry...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A pastor who fell from grace only 3 years ago is back. &#8211;Troubling. Loneliness is a dangerous reason to start a ministry&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://www.mikepottersblog.com/2009/11/ted-haggard-is-back/comment-page-1/#comment-854</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 07:19:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikepottersblog.com/?p=1287#comment-854</guid>
		<description>Thanks for your latest blogpost re Ted Haggard: balanced &amp; fair, yet bringing up a pertinent issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for your latest blogpost re Ted Haggard: balanced &amp; fair, yet bringing up a pertinent issue.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://www.mikepottersblog.com/2009/11/ted-haggard-is-back/comment-page-1/#comment-827</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 13:46:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikepottersblog.com/?p=1287#comment-827</guid>
		<description>A couple of comments have been to the effect of &quot;who are we to judge? God may be telling Ted it&#039;s time.&quot; Well I believe Jenni hit the nail on the head when she said: &quot;We must hold God’s standards for our leaders.&quot; Here they are:

1Ti 3:2  The overseer then must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, an able teacher,
1Ti 3:3  not a drunkard, not violent, but gentle, not contentious, free from the love of money.
1Ti 3:4  He must manage his own household well and keep his children in control without losing his dignity.
1Ti 3:5  But if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for the church of God?
1Ti 3:6  He must not be a recent convert or he may become arrogant and fall into the punishment that the devil will exact.
1Ti 3:7  And he must be well thought of by those outside the faith, so that he may not fall into disgrace and be caught by the devil&#039;s trap.

And again from Titus:

Tit 1:6  An elder must be blameless, the husband of one wife, with faithful children who cannot be charged with dissipation or rebellion.
Tit 1:7  For the overseer must be blameless as one entrusted with God&#039;s work, not arrogant, not prone to anger, not a drunkard, not violent, not greedy for gain.
Tit 1:8  Instead he must be hospitable, devoted to what is good, sensible, upright, devout, and self-controlled.
Tit 1:9  He must hold firmly to the faithful message as it has been taught, so that he will be able to give exhortation in such healthy teaching and correct those who speak against it.
Tit 1:10  For there are many rebellious people, idle talkers, and deceivers, especially those with Jewish connections,
Tit 1:11  who must be silenced because they mislead whole families by teaching for dishonest gain what ought not to be taught.
Tit 1:12  A certain one of them, in fact, one of their own prophets, said, &quot;Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.&quot;
Tit 1:13  Such testimony is true. For this reason rebuke them sharply that they may be healthy in the faith
Tit 1:14  and not pay attention to Jewish myths and commands of people who reject the truth.
Tit 1:15  All is pure to those who are pure. But to those who are corrupt and unbelieving, nothing is pure, but both their minds and consciences are corrupted.
Tit 1:16  They profess to know God but with their deeds they deny him, since they are detestable, disobedient, and unfit for any good deed.

Tit 2:7  showing yourself to be an example of good works in every way. In your teaching show integrity, dignity,
Tit 2:8  and a sound message that cannot be criticized, so that any opponent will be at a loss, because he has nothing evil to say about us.

And one more relevent passage on timing:

1Ti 5:21  Before God and Christ Jesus and the elect angels, I solemnly charge you to carry out these commands without prejudice or favoritism of any kind.
1Ti 5:22  Do not lay hands on anyone hastily and so identify with the sins of others. Keep yourself pure

Ted certainly is in need of forgiveness, encouragement and fellowship. He has repented and he needs the Body around him in support. But leadership is a whole other animal. It would seem to me that if and only if Ted is: 

under the authority of a local Church Body 

of which the elders of that local congregation have deeply observed Ted&#039;s life

and who categorically and without reservation know that he does fully meet the standards for an elder as laid out clearly in the above passages 

and who have without reservation considered that God is prompting them (not as a result of Ted&#039;s seeking leadership),

then and only then should a leadership postition of any kind be considered.

Hosting/teaching a Bible study &quot;because we were lonely&quot;? How about participation as a regular member of a small group for forgiveness and fellowship, encouragement and growth and healing?

At what point would one think that Ted will meet the requirement of :
 &quot;And he must be well thought of by those outside the faith, so that he may not fall into disgrace and be caught by the devil&#039;s trap.&quot; I Tim 3:7?

There are some serious issues when considering who God would have in leadership in His Church.

May God continue to bring healing and maturity to Ted and may he find the fullness of God&#039;s Grace to be more than sufficient for his every need.

Grace!
SDG</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A couple of comments have been to the effect of &#8220;who are we to judge? God may be telling Ted it&#8217;s time.&#8221; Well I believe Jenni hit the nail on the head when she said: &#8220;We must hold God’s standards for our leaders.&#8221; Here they are:</p>
<p>1Ti 3:2  The overseer then must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, an able teacher,<br />
1Ti 3:3  not a drunkard, not violent, but gentle, not contentious, free from the love of money.<br />
1Ti 3:4  He must manage his own household well and keep his children in control without losing his dignity.<br />
1Ti 3:5  But if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for the church of God?<br />
1Ti 3:6  He must not be a recent convert or he may become arrogant and fall into the punishment that the devil will exact.<br />
1Ti 3:7  And he must be well thought of by those outside the faith, so that he may not fall into disgrace and be caught by the devil&#8217;s trap.</p>
<p>And again from Titus:</p>
<p>Tit 1:6  An elder must be blameless, the husband of one wife, with faithful children who cannot be charged with dissipation or rebellion.<br />
Tit 1:7  For the overseer must be blameless as one entrusted with God&#8217;s work, not arrogant, not prone to anger, not a drunkard, not violent, not greedy for gain.<br />
Tit 1:8  Instead he must be hospitable, devoted to what is good, sensible, upright, devout, and self-controlled.<br />
Tit 1:9  He must hold firmly to the faithful message as it has been taught, so that he will be able to give exhortation in such healthy teaching and correct those who speak against it.<br />
Tit 1:10  For there are many rebellious people, idle talkers, and deceivers, especially those with Jewish connections,<br />
Tit 1:11  who must be silenced because they mislead whole families by teaching for dishonest gain what ought not to be taught.<br />
Tit 1:12  A certain one of them, in fact, one of their own prophets, said, &#8220;Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.&#8221;<br />
Tit 1:13  Such testimony is true. For this reason rebuke them sharply that they may be healthy in the faith<br />
Tit 1:14  and not pay attention to Jewish myths and commands of people who reject the truth.<br />
Tit 1:15  All is pure to those who are pure. But to those who are corrupt and unbelieving, nothing is pure, but both their minds and consciences are corrupted.<br />
Tit 1:16  They profess to know God but with their deeds they deny him, since they are detestable, disobedient, and unfit for any good deed.</p>
<p>Tit 2:7  showing yourself to be an example of good works in every way. In your teaching show integrity, dignity,<br />
Tit 2:8  and a sound message that cannot be criticized, so that any opponent will be at a loss, because he has nothing evil to say about us.</p>
<p>And one more relevent passage on timing:</p>
<p>1Ti 5:21  Before God and Christ Jesus and the elect angels, I solemnly charge you to carry out these commands without prejudice or favoritism of any kind.<br />
1Ti 5:22  Do not lay hands on anyone hastily and so identify with the sins of others. Keep yourself pure</p>
<p>Ted certainly is in need of forgiveness, encouragement and fellowship. He has repented and he needs the Body around him in support. But leadership is a whole other animal. It would seem to me that if and only if Ted is: </p>
<p>under the authority of a local Church Body </p>
<p>of which the elders of that local congregation have deeply observed Ted&#8217;s life</p>
<p>and who categorically and without reservation know that he does fully meet the standards for an elder as laid out clearly in the above passages </p>
<p>and who have without reservation considered that God is prompting them (not as a result of Ted&#8217;s seeking leadership),</p>
<p>then and only then should a leadership postition of any kind be considered.</p>
<p>Hosting/teaching a Bible study &#8220;because we were lonely&#8221;? How about participation as a regular member of a small group for forgiveness and fellowship, encouragement and growth and healing?</p>
<p>At what point would one think that Ted will meet the requirement of :<br />
 &#8220;And he must be well thought of by those outside the faith, so that he may not fall into disgrace and be caught by the devil&#8217;s trap.&#8221; I Tim 3:7?</p>
<p>There are some serious issues when considering who God would have in leadership in His Church.</p>
<p>May God continue to bring healing and maturity to Ted and may he find the fullness of God&#8217;s Grace to be more than sufficient for his every need.</p>
<p>Grace!<br />
SDG</p>
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		<title>By: Matt B.</title>
		<link>http://www.mikepottersblog.com/2009/11/ted-haggard-is-back/comment-page-1/#comment-826</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 08:51:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikepottersblog.com/?p=1287#comment-826</guid>
		<description>God&#039;s grace is sufficient; if Ted feels that God is leading him in this direction, who is anyone else to say otherwise? The truth is in the puddin as they say and the fruit produced will show the reality. Grace...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>God&#8217;s grace is sufficient; if Ted feels that God is leading him in this direction, who is anyone else to say otherwise? The truth is in the puddin as they say and the fruit produced will show the reality. Grace&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://www.mikepottersblog.com/2009/11/ted-haggard-is-back/comment-page-1/#comment-808</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 05:40:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikepottersblog.com/?p=1287#comment-808</guid>
		<description>Ok, it has been THREE YEARS here..... how much time does God need to hela a heart and who are we to put a timetable on God&#039;s healing?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, it has been THREE YEARS here&#8230;.. how much time does God need to hela a heart and who are we to put a timetable on God&#8217;s healing?</p>
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		<title>By: Jerry</title>
		<link>http://www.mikepottersblog.com/2009/11/ted-haggard-is-back/comment-page-1/#comment-805</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 21:04:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikepottersblog.com/?p=1287#comment-805</guid>
		<description>I do have faith that God will utilize Mr. Haggard in the way that he sees fit, and that no matter what I think or feel,  will that have any bearing on that plan.  I will pray for Mr. Haggard as well as those who look up to him and those who oppose him, in hopes that God&#039;s message of mercy and grace can be shared by all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do have faith that God will utilize Mr. Haggard in the way that he sees fit, and that no matter what I think or feel,  will that have any bearing on that plan.  I will pray for Mr. Haggard as well as those who look up to him and those who oppose him, in hopes that God&#8217;s message of mercy and grace can be shared by all.</p>
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		<title>By: Michele</title>
		<link>http://www.mikepottersblog.com/2009/11/ted-haggard-is-back/comment-page-1/#comment-801</link>
		<dc:creator>Michele</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 04:06:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikepottersblog.com/?p=1287#comment-801</guid>
		<description>What lessons from the life of King David apply here?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What lessons from the life of King David apply here?</p>
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		<title>By: Rhett</title>
		<link>http://www.mikepottersblog.com/2009/11/ted-haggard-is-back/comment-page-1/#comment-800</link>
		<dc:creator>Rhett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 04:00:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikepottersblog.com/?p=1287#comment-800</guid>
		<description>I think for my own personal mind set, I would have to be knowledgeable of what he did during his down time to be comfortable with his return.  I would also seek a lot of prayer on his return.  I think we are all prone to error and sin and leaders tend to be in the spotlight so garner the most attention when they sin.  I would be curious to know what type of focus he took during his absence and who he has in his life for accountability.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think for my own personal mind set, I would have to be knowledgeable of what he did during his down time to be comfortable with his return.  I would also seek a lot of prayer on his return.  I think we are all prone to error and sin and leaders tend to be in the spotlight so garner the most attention when they sin.  I would be curious to know what type of focus he took during his absence and who he has in his life for accountability.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://www.mikepottersblog.com/2009/11/ted-haggard-is-back/comment-page-1/#comment-798</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 23:09:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikepottersblog.com/?p=1287#comment-798</guid>
		<description>All I can say to those who would object is - Step into the light and let&#039;s see what you&#039;ve got inside that&#039;s yet to be exposed!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All I can say to those who would object is &#8211; Step into the light and let&#8217;s see what you&#8217;ve got inside that&#8217;s yet to be exposed!</p>
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		<title>By: Natros</title>
		<link>http://www.mikepottersblog.com/2009/11/ted-haggard-is-back/comment-page-1/#comment-797</link>
		<dc:creator>Natros</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Nov 2009 23:07:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mikepottersblog.com/?p=1287#comment-797</guid>
		<description>My question would be:  is he under the authority, guidance, or supervision of a local church there in the Springs?  If he is clearly accountable to a pastor &amp; elders at a church, and they believe him qualified to be restored to service, then I&#039;d be willing to accept their recommendation.  All respect to Pastor Hawkins, but I&#039;m skeptical of a distant body endorsing Mr. Haggard for further ministry. I have heard that the restoration and accountability process that was originally begun by his church ended up breaking down at some point, and if that is the case, then that is troubling.  Simply put, I heartily agree that God can restore the fallen, strengthen the weak, and heal the sick, and that a failure does not automatically disqualify us for service.  However, when a fall happens, especially such a public one that has disgraced not only the individual, but also the church, I think that it is wise for the leadership of the church to come to consensus on when public restoration is appropriate.  It sounds very much as though Mr. Haggard is taking it upon himself to declare himself healed and moving forward, and I don&#039;t think that&#039;s a wise course of action.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My question would be:  is he under the authority, guidance, or supervision of a local church there in the Springs?  If he is clearly accountable to a pastor &amp; elders at a church, and they believe him qualified to be restored to service, then I&#8217;d be willing to accept their recommendation.  All respect to Pastor Hawkins, but I&#8217;m skeptical of a distant body endorsing Mr. Haggard for further ministry. I have heard that the restoration and accountability process that was originally begun by his church ended up breaking down at some point, and if that is the case, then that is troubling.  Simply put, I heartily agree that God can restore the fallen, strengthen the weak, and heal the sick, and that a failure does not automatically disqualify us for service.  However, when a fall happens, especially such a public one that has disgraced not only the individual, but also the church, I think that it is wise for the leadership of the church to come to consensus on when public restoration is appropriate.  It sounds very much as though Mr. Haggard is taking it upon himself to declare himself healed and moving forward, and I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s a wise course of action.</p>
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